Welcome to the Space & Missile AFSC discussion blog. The purpose of this blog is to foster discussion between future Air Force officers interested in the Space & Missile career field and current officers in Space. The views expressed in this blog are solely the opinions of the individual authors and not of the United States Air Force nor the Department of Defense.
Thursday, January 25, 2007
Questions
Cadets, please post questions here as a comment on this post that you'd like to see turned into new threads for discussion.
Is it true that all space and missile officers have to do a year or two of silo duty? What are options as far as getting stationed? Is this a good career field if you are looking to do joint spouse?
If you are planning on doing S&M as a career you will most likely be a missillier (silo duty). It will prob. be a a 4 yr. tour where you will sit ~ 3-4 72hr alerts per month and maybe 2 if you are a senior evaluator. On the other hand you could also go space the entire time, but it is a crapshoot.
Missiles- ND, MT, WY Space-CA,CO,MA,FL,Greenland
If your wife is military it may be difficult if her afsc is only at a few bases. My fiancee is hospital admin, so she can go anywhere. If you wife is a pilot, only minot would have a spot for her.
I heard you do a casual assignment before you start the schoolhouse... is this true and if so what did you do and what have you heard from other people about it? Also, when did you go to ASBC?
mcinger - To latch on to what 'gooch' said, the whole joint spouse thing works better if one of you is in a career field that can be done in ANY location, like security forces or medical. That way, it will not be too difficult to get both of you to the same location. If you are in the same career field, you will find that it gets more difficult to get you two in the same location as you progress through your careers. If one of you is a pilot, and the other a 13S, you will have a VERY difficult time getting stationed together because there just aren't that many pilot and space bases in the same location.
Yes, the way the 13S career field works is that sooner or later, you will most likely spend some time being a missileer, and that a standard missile tour is about 4 years long.
Missile bases are Minot AFB, North Dakota; Malmstrom AFB, Montana; and F.E. Warren AFB, Wyoming (about 3 hours north of here in the Springs).
A little more variety in the space side, with Vandenberg AFB, California; NORAD, Peterson and Schriever AFB here in the Springs; Buckley AFB, Denver; Thule, Greenland; Cape Caneveral, Florida;, etc.
Missile duty isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If you want any more detail, let me know. Thanks Gooch!
Donnie - The way Space and Missiles work is that EVERYONE who is a 13S goes out to Vandenberg AFB and completes a 6 week course called Officer Space Prerequisite Training (OSPT). This is a general information course designed to give the student a taste of all things AF space and missiles.
After you complete this course, you will fill out a dream sheet on where you want to go (space, missiles, radar, etc). Once you get selected for your next assignment, you wait till your training class begins. This could be anywhere from right away, to several months. For instance, I had to wait almost 5 months to start missile school after finishing OSPT. This is where the casual assignment comes in. You will be shuttled off to another part of Vandenberg to work. For me, I was sent to work in the 14th Air Force headquarters building, just a stones throw from the 14th AF commander’s office. I did everything from working with classified info, to planning a retirement ceremony (the peon basically). So, if you were hoping to be sent off to Hawaii for 2 months I am sorry to tell you it probably won’t happen.
I went to ASBC after I had completed my training, and had already moved to my first assignment. This is a little more rare these days. From what I understand, the Academy will most likely try and send you right away after commissioning, before you even get to your training base. As with everything in the military, this too might change by the time you commission.
I graduated last may and arrived at Vandenberg 5 August. I left 1 week later to go to ASBC and got back mid September. My casual/LEAP/transition job from September to 21 November was with Public Affairs where I served as a base tour guide. :) Everyone going into 13S will do their "casual" at Vandenberg and I had buddies working anywhere from the gym, library, 14th AF, MPF, etc. Everyone in 06 got here in Aug and started school in either late Nov. or early January.
Kal-el has some great info, but a couple of little things have changed recently. OSPT is now called Space 100 and is basically Astro310 without all the number crunching.
Ryan - I don't know what to tell you about getting out of this career field. This Blog is designed to help people get more information about the 13S career field, not about how to get out of it.
I have heard that you can switch AFSC's with someone if you can find someone willing to go into 13S. Other than that, I don't think you will find too much more about getting out of space and missiles.
Well with that being said, what would you say the best part of 13S is? I'm just looking for some positives so that there is something to look forward to. I hope that makes sense...
1) If you are a "Five & Dive" type, then Cameron-Brooks (civilian head hunting firm) will love you because missile ops gives you a strong resume of stratification (instructor duties, flight commander, evaluator and analysis).
2) Whether an AF careerist or a "five and dive", you can get the MBA from some decent schools (Colorado State & Wyoming if stationed at F.E. Warren), further enhancing a civilian resume, or just "getting it out of the way" for the AF purposes.
3) Much like the Academy, there are some tough days, but once you are gone, you usually have a handful of "...and that's how I saved the world" stories. Hey, it's nukes! There are some crazy things going on there...
4) Life-long friends, stronger than most of my "college" pals.
Ryan - There are several good things about Missiles. I read more books in the 4+ years I was a missileer than the rest of my whole life combined.
I got my masters degree via correspondence while I was a missileer from a nationally and regionally accredited university (which is how I was able to become a teacher here at the academy).
The schedule (especially when you are just a line crew member) allows for a pretty decent amount of free time outside of work. I was able to pursue many hobbies when I was a missileer. Much more time than I have now, and probably will ever have again in the future. It really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Just as with any assignment, you just make the most of your time.
Scuba Steve – The beauty of being a 13S lies in the wide variety of jobs that are available. Missiles is only a small part of Space Command. Satellite command and control, Space Warning/Tracking, Space lift are all open to 13S (not to mention working in the classified world of space operations; jobs you can’t talk about).
Because 13S is an operational career track, promotion rates are decent. It is theoretically possible to be a general as a 13S. And, since space will play an ever increasing role in future military operations, the 13S career field will not be going away any time soon.
Also, it is not a guarantee that you will spend your first tour as a missileer. You might go of and fly satellites, or be a radar operator before going to a missile assignment. Its just that you are more likely to do missiles first than not.
Have any of you that are currently in 13s received job offers from the civilian sector? If so, what types of offers have you received. Does 13s provide some sort of background for you to transition into the business world once you decide to separate from the military? And thanks for everyone's help with all of the questions.
Could someone please expand a little more on the types of hours or shifts(or whatever you call them)you work in the silos? i.e.- 3 days on 3 days off type stuff ...Thanks
Donnie - The way it worked when I was on crew was something like this: I would get up, get ready, and go to base for a "Mission Planning" briefing. This was a briefing with only your squadron members going out to the field that day. Immediately after that, we had another briefing called "Pre D" or Pre Deployment. This was with everyone going out to the field that day. After Pre D, we would go to our trucks and drive out to the field. Once at our predetermined location, we would change over with the next crew, and then spend 24 hrs in the capsule. The next morning, you wait till your relief crew comes out and changes over with you, and then you go home.
Here is where things can get a little messy. Depending on what kind of additional duties you have you can either go home for the rest of the day, or you could be in the office after you get home from alert working on whatever it is you need to do. Now, the day after you get off of alert you either have totally off (you don’t come in to work), or more likely, you have some kind of training.
Missileers are required to have 3 different training days a month, along with taking 3 different written exams a month, EVERY MONTH; sometimes more depending on whether or not there is an inspection going on. The day after your training day, you go back out on alert, and start the process all over again. 8 times a month. Being a missileer is a constant cycle of alerts and training. And everything I just described happens if you are just a basic line crew member. If you are a trainer or evaluator, you work in an office 5 days a week, and then go on alert on the weekend (not every weekend, just most).
NOW, having told you all that, the Missile alert schedule is undergoing a change. The missile squadrons are moving from a 24 hr alert schedule, to a 3 day alert schedule. Things would work a little differently than before. Instead of two people to a site, you would have 3 people, with one person living topside for 12 hrs at a time to work issues, train, workout, shower, etc. Instead of pulling eight 24 hr alerts a month, you would pull 6 – 3 day alerts.
The 3 day alert schedule is not set in stone as far as I know, but I wanted to give you a heads up in case it changes by the time you get there. Does this answer your question?
I'm not a cadet, but the girlfriend of a 3* who wants to be S&M. I have a question about what happens after graduation. I understand from my boyfriend that he will go do training at Vandenberg. How long is that? Is it worth moving out there with him, or is it just a couple months? When will he find out where his first base will be?
The length of time spent at Vandenberg can vary on a number of uncontrollable factors. Space 100, the initial training course is 6 weeks long. Usually new LT's are put in a Space 100 class very soon after arriving on station. It is towards the end of the Space 100 course that you fill out your 'dream sheet' for what job and base you want (ie Satellites, radar, missiles, etc). The LT's are then racked and stacked by grades and needs of the air force, and then they are told what their assignment (base) and system (satellites, missiles) will be. The LT's assignment will determine what kind of follow on training they will get. Here is the Tricky part.
Satellies, radar, missiles, etc all have various training times. For instance, missile school is almost 5 months, while some types of radar systems are less than 2 months. On top of that, there might be a waiting period before the LT can get into their spacialized training.
For me, I had to wait almost 4 months between the end of Space 100 and the start of missile school. During that waiting time, I worked a job at the 14th Air Force headquarters until my missile school started. I was at vandenberg for almost 10 months. I have heard of people being there for close to 2 years before before moving on, while another person I knew was there for less than 6 months.
The other factor is clearance. If an LT gets put into a job that requires a Top Secret, then they might have to wait until their clearance comes in before they can start TRAINING.
It is all a craps shoot. No guarantees of anything. If you were looking for a definitive answer, like most things in the AF, there isn't one. I hope this info helps in your decision making.
Ryan/g_love, If you get this could you please contact me at zword46@msn.com. I would like to hear about the deal you two worked out last year. Thanks so much.
i was just curious if there were any updates on how long one would spend out in Vandy for Space and Missiles training? also whether ASBC is done before or after training?
Are there any recent updated to any of this information? I'm currently in the Coast Guard working on a space studies BS degree, and would like to transfer into the Air Force Space Command as a Space and Middle Operations Officer career (emphasis on the space part).
29 comments:
I am an 06 grad doing an acquisitions opex tour in space and missiles right now and can answer any questions you might have.
Is it true that all space and missile officers have to do a year or two of silo duty?
What are options as far as getting stationed?
Is this a good career field if you are looking to do joint spouse?
If you are planning on doing S&M as a career you will most likely be a missillier (silo duty). It will prob. be a a 4 yr. tour where you will sit ~ 3-4 72hr alerts per month and maybe 2 if you are a senior evaluator. On the other hand you could also go space the entire time, but it is a crapshoot.
Missiles- ND, MT, WY
Space-CA,CO,MA,FL,Greenland
If your wife is military it may be difficult if her afsc is only at a few bases. My fiancee is hospital admin, so she can go anywhere. If you wife is a pilot, only minot would have a spot for her.
I heard you do a casual assignment before you start the schoolhouse... is this true and if so what did you do and what have you heard from other people about it? Also, when did you go to ASBC?
mcinger - To latch on to what 'gooch' said, the whole joint spouse thing works better if one of you is in a career field that can be done in ANY location, like security forces or medical. That way, it will not be too difficult to get both of you to the same location. If you are in the same career field, you will find that it gets more difficult to get you two in the same location as you progress through your careers. If one of you is a pilot, and the other a 13S, you will have a VERY difficult time getting stationed together because there just aren't that many pilot and space bases in the same location.
Yes, the way the 13S career field works is that sooner or later, you will most likely spend some time being a missileer, and that a standard missile tour is about 4 years long.
Missile bases are Minot AFB, North Dakota; Malmstrom AFB, Montana; and F.E. Warren AFB, Wyoming (about 3 hours north of here in the Springs).
A little more variety in the space side, with Vandenberg AFB, California; NORAD, Peterson and Schriever AFB here in the Springs; Buckley AFB, Denver; Thule, Greenland; Cape Caneveral, Florida;, etc.
Missile duty isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If you want any more detail, let me know. Thanks Gooch!
Donnie - The way Space and Missiles work is that EVERYONE who is a 13S goes out to Vandenberg AFB and completes a 6 week course called Officer Space Prerequisite Training (OSPT). This is a general information course designed to give the student a taste of all things AF space and missiles.
After you complete this course, you will fill out a dream sheet on where you want to go (space, missiles, radar, etc). Once you get selected for your next assignment, you wait till your training class begins. This could be anywhere from right away, to several months. For instance, I had to wait almost 5 months to start missile school after finishing OSPT. This is where the casual assignment comes in. You will be shuttled off to another part of Vandenberg to work. For me, I was sent to work in the 14th Air Force headquarters building, just a stones throw from the 14th AF commander’s office. I did everything from working with classified info, to planning a retirement ceremony (the peon basically). So, if you were hoping to be sent off to Hawaii for 2 months I am sorry to tell you it probably won’t happen.
I went to ASBC after I had completed my training, and had already moved to my first assignment. This is a little more rare these days. From what I understand, the Academy will most likely try and send you right away after commissioning, before you even get to your training base. As with everything in the military, this too might change by the time you commission.
What is the best way to get out of the Space and Missile career field? How hard is it to do?
I graduated last may and arrived at Vandenberg 5 August. I left 1 week later to go to ASBC and got back mid September. My casual/LEAP/transition job from September to 21 November was with Public Affairs where I served as a base tour guide. :) Everyone going into 13S will do their "casual" at Vandenberg and I had buddies working anywhere from the gym, library, 14th AF, MPF, etc. Everyone in 06 got here in Aug and started school in either late Nov. or early January.
Kal-el has some great info, but a couple of little things have changed recently. OSPT is now called Space 100 and is basically Astro310 without all the number crunching.
Ryan - I don't know what to tell you about getting out of this career field. This Blog is designed to help people get more information about the 13S career field, not about how to get out of it.
I have heard that you can switch AFSC's with someone if you can find someone willing to go into 13S. Other than that, I don't think you will find too much more about getting out of space and missiles.
By the way, it isn't as bad as you think.
Well with that being said, what would you say the best part of 13S is? I'm just looking for some positives so that there is something to look forward to. I hope that makes sense...
There are many bests to missiles.
1) If you are a "Five & Dive" type, then Cameron-Brooks (civilian head hunting firm) will love you because missile ops gives you a strong resume of stratification (instructor duties, flight commander, evaluator and analysis).
2) Whether an AF careerist or a "five and dive", you can get the MBA from some decent schools (Colorado State & Wyoming if stationed at F.E. Warren), further enhancing a civilian resume, or just "getting it out of the way" for the AF purposes.
3) Much like the Academy, there are some tough days, but once you are gone, you usually have a handful of "...and that's how I saved the world" stories. Hey, it's nukes! There are some crazy things going on there...
4) Life-long friends, stronger than most of my "college" pals.
What is the career like after the first silo tour? Does it change at all for those who want to stay in for more than 5, possibly 20ish?
Ryan - There are several good things about Missiles. I read more books in the 4+ years I was a missileer than the rest of my whole life combined.
I got my masters degree via correspondence while I was a missileer from a nationally and regionally accredited university (which is how I was able to become a teacher here at the academy).
The schedule (especially when you are just a line crew member) allows for a pretty decent amount of free time outside of work. I was able to pursue many hobbies when I was a missileer. Much more time than I have now, and probably will ever have again in the future. It really isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. Just as with any assignment, you just make the most of your time.
Scuba Steve – The beauty of being a 13S lies in the wide variety of jobs that are available. Missiles is only a small part of Space Command. Satellite command and control, Space Warning/Tracking, Space lift are all open to 13S (not to mention working in the classified world of space operations; jobs you can’t talk about).
Because 13S is an operational career track, promotion rates are decent. It is theoretically possible to be a general as a 13S. And, since space will play an ever increasing role in future military operations, the 13S career field will not be going away any time soon.
Also, it is not a guarantee that you will spend your first tour as a missileer. You might go of and fly satellites, or be a radar operator before going to a missile assignment. Its just that you are more likely to do missiles first than not.
Have any of you that are currently in 13s received job offers from the civilian sector? If so, what types of offers have you received. Does 13s provide some sort of background for you to transition into the business world once you decide to separate from the military? And thanks for everyone's help with all of the questions.
Could someone please expand a little more on the types of hours or shifts(or whatever you call them)you work in the silos? i.e.- 3 days on 3 days off type stuff ...Thanks
ryan, if you're interested in trading a space/missiles slot for logistics readiness, maybe we could work something out.
g_love what is the best way to reach you to discuss this further, i would be extremely interested...let me know thanks
Email me at gbro311@yahoo.com from your USAFA account.
check ur mail
Donnie - The way it worked when I was on crew was something like this: I would get up, get ready, and go to base for a "Mission Planning" briefing. This was a briefing with only your squadron members going out to the field that day. Immediately after that, we had another briefing called "Pre D" or Pre Deployment. This was with everyone going out to the field that day. After Pre D, we would go to our trucks and drive out to the field. Once at our predetermined location, we would change over with the next crew, and then spend 24 hrs in the capsule. The next morning, you wait till your relief crew comes out and changes over with you, and then you go home.
Here is where things can get a little messy. Depending on what kind of additional duties you have you can either go home for the rest of the day, or you could be in the office after you get home from alert working on whatever it is you need to do. Now, the day after you get off of alert you either have totally off (you don’t come in to work), or more likely, you have some kind of training.
Missileers are required to have 3 different training days a month, along with taking 3 different written exams a month, EVERY MONTH; sometimes more depending on whether or not there is an inspection going on. The day after your training day, you go back out on alert, and start the process all over again. 8 times a month. Being a missileer is a constant cycle of alerts and training. And everything I just described happens if you are just a basic line crew member. If you are a trainer or evaluator, you work in an office 5 days a week, and then go on alert on the weekend (not every weekend, just most).
NOW, having told you all that, the Missile alert schedule is undergoing a change. The missile squadrons are moving from a 24 hr alert schedule, to a 3 day alert schedule. Things would work a little differently than before. Instead of two people to a site, you would have 3 people, with one person living topside for 12 hrs at a time to work issues, train, workout, shower, etc. Instead of pulling eight 24 hr alerts a month, you would pull 6 – 3 day alerts.
The 3 day alert schedule is not set in stone as far as I know, but I wanted to give you a heads up in case it changes by the time you get there. Does this answer your question?
Everyone - Here is a story about the 72hr missile alert schedule being implemented. http://www.warren.af.mil/news/story.asp?storyID=123041008
Copy the address into your browser.
Just an FYI!
I'm not a cadet, but the girlfriend of a 3* who wants to be S&M. I have a question about what happens after graduation. I understand from my boyfriend that he will go do training at Vandenberg. How long is that? Is it worth moving out there with him, or is it just a couple months? When will he find out where his first base will be?
M.J. Watson -
The length of time spent at Vandenberg can vary on a number of uncontrollable factors. Space 100, the initial training course is 6 weeks long. Usually new LT's are put in a Space 100 class very soon after arriving on station. It is towards the end of the Space 100 course that you fill out your 'dream sheet' for what job and base you want (ie Satellites, radar, missiles, etc). The LT's are then racked and stacked by grades and needs of the air force, and then they are told what their assignment (base) and system (satellites, missiles) will be. The LT's assignment will determine what kind of follow on training they will get. Here is the Tricky part.
Satellies, radar, missiles, etc all have various training times. For instance, missile school is almost 5 months, while some types of radar systems are less than 2 months. On top of that, there might be a waiting period before the LT can get into their spacialized training.
For me, I had to wait almost 4 months between the end of Space 100 and the start of missile school. During that waiting time, I worked a job at the 14th Air Force headquarters until my missile school started. I was at vandenberg for almost 10 months. I have heard of people being there for close to 2 years before before moving on, while another person I knew was there for less than 6 months.
The other factor is clearance. If an LT gets put into a job that requires a Top Secret, then they might have to wait until their clearance comes in before they can start TRAINING.
It is all a craps shoot. No guarantees of anything. If you were looking for a definitive answer, like most things in the AF, there isn't one. I hope this info helps in your decision making.
Okay. Here's another question. My boyfriend told me that he might have to live on base at Vandenberg. Is that true?
M.J. Watson - As far as I can remember, single LT's have the OPTION of living on base, but they are NOT required to do so.
Ryan/g_love,
If you get this could you please contact me at zword46@msn.com. I would like to hear about the deal you two worked out last year. Thanks so much.
i was just curious if there were any updates on how long one would spend out in Vandy for Space and Missiles training? also whether ASBC is done before or after training?
Are there any recent updated to any of this information? I'm currently in the Coast Guard working on a space studies BS degree, and would like to transfer into the Air Force Space Command as a Space and Middle Operations Officer career (emphasis on the space part).
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